….at least not in Germany.
Walking down the main shopping street of Stuttgart today there were (as always) a couple of stands where people were espousing their political and/or cultural viewpoints. I’m often overwhelmed by the need to engage these people in meaningful dialogue. Okay, I’m often overwhelmed by the need to engage animal rights demonstrators in meaningful dialogue. And of course when I say meaningful dialogue, I mean tell them that I eat meat, shoot animals, wear leather clothes and shoes and have performed literally thousands of animal experiments for medical research. In fact in one case where a group of people were picketing a branch of Burger King in Munich, handing out flyers of bloodied chicken carcasses with a “Murder King” logo, I felt it my moral duty to enter the store, purchase a Crispy Chicken burger and stand next to the window, waving at them making lip smacking gestures as I ate it (see, I can be brave when there’s a large group of riot police nearby keeping a close eye on the unwashed people with matted hair).
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, walking down the main street in Stuttgart, wandering up to a stand to see if they were worth engaging in meaningful dialogue / a bit of baiting. And what I saw was unbelievable – they were a group of people who, well, I didn’t have too much time to speak to them, so I don’t know if they were completely barking, but I actually agreed with many of the things they said. And brave too – it’s one thing to eat a chicken burger with police protection, but completely different to hand out this sticker in a city which, for some reason, had to be extensively rebuilt 50-60 years ago.
German Phrase For Today: “Bombenflächenwurf” – Area Bombing
Song playing as this was published: The Beta Band “Dry The Rain”
I’m not sure I get it - can you explain more? Do they want Americans to attack some so-called ‘Axis of Evil’ countries? Or to send spitfires over to Germany? Or what? Is there some kind of irony here that would best be understood from hearing more of what they had to say? And where is Rumsfeld in the order of command now, anyway?
As for animals being slaughtered, I felt very sorry for a massive tank full of squid on the street the other day - they had such large, sorrowful eyes, and they seemed to be moving about the water in such a magnificent, graceful way. Soon to be eaten alive, perhaps. Eek!
Well, there was lots of pro-USA and pro-Israel literature, it was just that sticker (being in English), that immediately drew my eye. I didn’t discuss it with them I just asked, probably open-mouthed, if I could have one. Bomber Harris doesn’t exactly get good press in Britain these days, to see that being given away on the streets of Germany - well, the post is called “Things one doesn’t see every day”. Thankfully there was a Marxist-Leninist group further down the street to bring me back to reality.
As for the animal rights people (and yeah, I know you’re a vegetarian), they annoy me. I’m sorry, but they do, I trained as a scientist, I have done animal experiments and it really wasn’t easy (most people aren’t drawn towards the biological sciences because of a desire to inflict pain on animals - but that’s for another post).
I do, however, believe that people should know where meat comes from - it’s not just pre-packed, well-presented packages at the supermarket - it’s a piece of a dead animal, and obviously, when I rule the world, to obtain a meat-eaters licence one would have to actually have killed an animal. I’m working on the other rules.
The animal rights people’s best friends were in Hannover on Saturday picketing a large clothing store (P & C) that was still selling fur coats. Huge police presence around them.
Oh no, I wasn’t being critical of your animal stance, AF. I have no problem with animal experimentation (if it’s done as humanely as possible and if I don’t have to see it), and I think that if people want to eat dead cows and stuff then it’s up to them (yet again, as long as I don’t have to see it). I merely felt sorry for the squid because they seemed so incredibly noble. I’m not actually a veggie, by the way, as I eat fish and seafood; and the experience of standing on the street probably won’t stop me from eating squid again, despite being hypnotised by their amazing movements and their strange eyes. I won’t be eating them while they’re still alive, at least. Anyway, note to self: wake up properly before commenting elsewhere, and that makes if much easier to be lucid!
christina: I generally don’t have a problem with protests, but I do with intimidation, and animal rights demonstrators somehow seem to get up to some pretty disturbing stuff.
David: Trickiest part of animal experiments was choosing the animal one would kill that day. It seemed so arbitrary to have to pick one out of a hundred. As for humanely, well most people who do the experiments have a love of animals (weird as that may sound) and even if they don’t - you’d want an animal that was as fit, healthy and well-kept as possible - you wouldn’t want disease, stress or mistreatment buggering up your results.
The sticker doesn’t make much sense to me. When did Rumsfeld engage in an antifascist mission? He is trying to hunt down islamic militant terrorists most of the time, all right, - and ignoring the Geneva convention, basic human rights as well as a few US laws along the way. And since when can a man that almost never gives a straight and honest answer to the Pentagon press corps and is called an old ineffective bureaucrat by that leftist publication “The Economist” become a public hero?
All in all, the severe destructions of German cities in WWII were well deserved. The Luftwaffe had previously attacked foreign cities without any regard for non-military targets. Diehard Nazi generals defended German cities like Aachen until the very last moment, sacrificing lives without mercy. A senseless and cruel behaviour when there was no realistic hope of winning the war. (Of course many of these commanders and officers became honourable citizens of postwar Germany. Speaking of Stuttgart, Hans Filbinger comes to mind. A ruthless military judge who became Baden-Wuerttemberg’s prime minister until his role in the execution of navy personnel during the last days of the war became known.) With an unconditional surrender of the German regime many deaths could have been prevented. But to praise Arthur “Bomber” Harris and carpet bombings as in Dresden is a bit of a different matter. Bombing Dresden, at this point, had no strategic or military importance. The city had been filled with civilian refugees from the former German areas in the East and there were few troops present. The phosphorous fire storm that ravaged Dresden incinerated many of its citizens. Passing out “Hurray for Harris” stickers and, most importantly, to equate carpet bombings with anti-fascism is not exactly a brilliant intellectual feat.
Bottom line: I don’t get it.
I gotta close now since unfortunately I have to measure the tumour burden on a few Bl6,
JCS
Speaking of Stuttgart and WWII, I learned today from my namesake airline’s in-flight magazine for september that Hugo Boss, beloved by science communicators who never really grew out of the 80’s everywhere, was originally a guy based in Metzingen who made his fortune making uniforms for the SS. Learn something new every day….
JCS: If I remember correctly the Geneva Convention only applies between state signatories and uniformed combatants. Rummie could, technically, say that the “enemy combatants” weren’t covered by the Geneva Convention and he’d be, if one was being very specific, correct.
We had (or at least I had), however, come to think of the US as a kind of shining beacon of democracy and individualism. For the US to act as it has (Andrew Sullivan has a slew of articles about this) has, for good or worse, destroyed her image of righteousness. The US is now for all intents and purposes “just another Western country” or even “the worst Western country” - not my opinion, but many do see it like that.
As for RAF Bomber Command and WW2 - it was Britain’s only effective weapon - apart fom providing time from 1939-41. Eradicating towns was all that Britain could do. The US had the materiel, the Soviets had the men & blood, the Germans, well I’d recommend reading “Armageddon” by Max Hastings. Did they/we (because I think of myself as RAF) take it too far? I don’t know - it’s worthy of at least one post of its own. I must ask however why Dresden is seen as a “war crime”, but Pforzheim, Hamburg, Heilbronn, Kassel etc. were/are seen as acceptable….?
“I have to measure the tumour burden on a few Bl6“. Point taken.
It’s surprising that so many people actually remember who bomber Harris was - and the Jerries were bombing the fook out of british towns & cities as well. But perhaps the biggest war crime of all was the fact that they never actually finished bombing Coventry off the face of the map.
JCS: Here’s a link for you http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092701527.html
They/we technicnically do not need to follow the Geneva Convention, but we should. I have recently had conversations with a relatively junior British NCO on leave from Iraq who described that after being able to immediately apprehend the men responsible for the deaths of his comrades, they were not exactly gently placed into a truck. I can in many ways understand people on the ground giving someone who has just killed several of their friends a good kicking. Torture and abuse shouldn’t be the policies from on high though - we’re meant to be “the good guys”.
Oh, and as for the strategic importance of bombing Dresden, I’d suggest that it had sod all to do with Germany, but was a demonstration to Stalin (and to the US for that matter, even though the USAF did take part) that Britain was demonstrably still a military power.
Agree wiuth everything you say, InActualFact.
Funny thing about animal rights activists and hardcore environmentalists (nuke protesters etc.) alike is that with their emotional, science-bashing attitude, they actually often hurt the objects of their respective interest/affection.