I’m not really a big fan of religion; I think it ranks up there with astrology, spoon bending and shamanistic quackery. Of course, it’s susperstitious nonsense in general I dislike, rather than any specific faith, and religious people in themselves certainly don’t seem any more or less agreeable than atheists, well apart from the Archbishop of Canterbury, obviously, who really gets up my nose. To put it differently, adherents to a particular faith are not a monolithic group: Some Ulster Protestants can say “yes”, not every Jew is a member of a shadowy cabal that runs the world and not every Muslim crashes planes into large buildings. Some of them don’t even own rucksacks, let alone rucksacks filled with crude homemade explosives.
I was “interested” to learn that the particular German Bundesland (state) in which I reside (and I should point out that it’s a wonderful area for venture capitalists, contact me for investment opportunities) has decided to get tough on Jihadists and Döner kebab makers.
Some genius has come up with a foolproof scheme: if a person from a country which is a member of Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) applies for German citizenship they’re going to “ask them some questions” – the full list is here (in German), but as an example:
28. Ihre Tochter bewirbt sich um eine Stelle in Deutschland. Sie bekommt jedoch ein ablehnendes Schreiben. Später erfahren Sie, dass eine Schwarzafrikanerin aus Somalia die Stelle bekommen hat. Wie verhalten Sie sich?
28. Your daughter applies for a job in Germany but receives a rejection letter. Later, you learn that a (black) African woman from Somalia got the job. How do you behave/react?
I’m not even going to comment on the concept that someone from Somalia might automatically qualify as being African, or that it’s one of the member countries of the OIC. And god only knows how many hoops of German bureaucracy someone has had to jump through to get to this particular round of asking stupid questions stage of the process, but maybe, just maybe, some people might give the “right” answers as opposed to what they actually believe.
Thankfully it’s just people from those 57 countries that are dangerous crazies; Britons who were trained in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, Americans who shoot secretaries that work at abortion clinics and just about any Catholic missionary who teaches that condoms are evil and which has in no way contributed to the AIDS epidemic in Africa get a free pass, well once they’ve got a certificate that shows they know how to separate their household waste properly.
Although I’m not a big fan of oppressive theocratic regimes, I’m certainly happy that the Interior minister here doesn’t think that singling out a single religious group counts as discrimination - I’m just waiting for a press conference where he says that to do so is protecting traditional German values.
I’ve just read those questions and I notice that more than half of them concern attitudes toward women and girls. You have to admit that this is a legitimate concern. Islamic countries are not praised for their treatment of women. There have been a lot of articles in Germany recently about how badly many Muslim, German-born girls in Germany are treated by their own families. And men with a medieval attitude toward women in their own families cause problems for the women in European countries. Ask any woman you know. I think it is totally legitimate to ask these questions if someone wants German citizenship. It says to all applicants that this issue is important. If they lie on the test, that shows they know the answers and can’t say they weren’t aware of German expectations and laws. And if they answer those questions “wrong”– i.e. that women should be treated badly– then why *should* they be allowed citizenship?
If it bothers you that Muslim countries are singled out, there is an obvious reason for that. I agree with you on one thing: they should not discriminate. They should ask everyone these questions.
Sedulia: It’s not a defence of Islam or Islamic countries per se as regards attitude to females. There is, as you say, much that I find disturbing, to say the least. However, if one was going to take the test would you really say “Yes I would beat all my wives if they didn’t obey me and would sell my only daughter for three camels.” or something equally ludicrously sterotypical?
Should all those questions about gleichberechtigkeit be targetted at one group?
How about if the newspaper headline was “German state government invents new rules only applicable to Jews?”
Europe really does need to sort out assimilation and integration, a method as crass as this one really isn’t it.
I would NEVER carry a rucksack. Bah. Not only would such a horrendous item not co-ordinate with any of my outfits, the messenger bag was invented by God for a reason.
‘Nuff said.
Actual,
Even though being a liberal and THEORETICALLY fully agreeing with you, I think Sedulia has a valid point.
If we leave the field of theoretics, we all KNOW that Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) are, on average, way WORSE superstitions than any other brand of religious crap.
And, once again on average, Islam is by far the WORST of that group, beating out Christianity by a wide margin, which itself beats out Judaism by a narrow one (Judaism, at least in the U.S. have so many NON-orthodox, funky, gay adherents, it almost counts as a “nice” religion).
If you then add that, on AVERAGE, a certain cultrural heritage that might not be wanted in immigrants is associated with being Muslim, I believe it is fully okay to screen for the cultural traits we don’t want to have here.
(Pre?-)judiced,
- m.
Sparky: Oh I don’t know, not all those Eastern religions are happy-clappy, love-thy-neighbour (as long as he’s like you).
However, if we do assume that Islam is the worst of the group (and it could well be at this particular moment in history, although Christianity and Judaism have had their moments - I’m not even going to start with non-theological beliefs like Nazism or Communism), making a law that only affects applicants from a sub-set of countries, Sin or Sarah for example, is just ridiculous.
1. It only applies to people who want to become citizens. If you’re just here on a visit to blow up the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, it’s completely irrelevant.
2. It just screens people from those 57 countries, just because you’re from an OIC state doesn’t mean you’re a muslim (insane or not), plus there are plenty of muslims from other countries.
3. I don’t know how long one has to have lived here before eligibility - I know I could, it was 5 or 7 years for an EU-Mitbürger. That should give someone enough time and knowledge to guess that saying you’d murder your daughter if she brought dishonour upon the family was not the correct answer.
and 4. It’s only in B-W’berg. You could be a potential suicide bomber and get your citizenship application done in Hessen.
I do understand what you’re saying about cultural heritage - can Western Europe assimilate large numbers of people from an apparently alien culture, especially if they and their children don’t want to be assimilated? But bringing in a useless law like this probably isn’t the best way to let people know that they’re not “different”.
Actual,
As I said, you’re right in theory - and my comments were all on an “on average” basis. Which loosely translates into “What my experiences, preceived through the goggles of my particular biases (that I try to keep minimal) have been”.
I think a better solution would be to just ask questions like:
“Wht do you hold in high regard - your subset of religion and morals or the German constitution? (You will have to swear on it)” on a federal test. That might weed out at least the most obvious wackos who are not scheming terrorists.
And I’m not worried about terrorists anyway - or even about assimilating large or small streams of new citizens (I think nobody needs to be assimilated and a certain amount of people, no matter wherefrom should be able to come here, as long as they respect the law).
But I believe that there are more and less valuable cultural influences and a given state has, in the interest of its CURRENT citizens, prefer to more valuable ones. And I know that influences from a country where gay, married people dance to Techno in the streets are WAY more valuable than influences from countries where you get you hands chopped off according to islamic law for touching an unwashed virgin or some such like. GO SPAIN
!